The Art of Mindful Medicine Interview- Dr Seth Gilson & Dr Michelle Jorgensen – 2024/08/30 14:59 EDT – Transcript Attendees Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine, Michelle Jorgensen Transcript Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: And here We are our Michelle. let’s get to it. So welcome everybody to another episode of the art of mindful medicine. I have the pleasure and honorative of hosting someone that I’ve been following for. Probably a good couple years now. So let’s jump right into it and with a very warm welcome. I have Dr. Michelle Jorgensen here and Like I said, I am thrilled to introduce her as a fellow holistic practitioner, whose own health crisis actually became the catalysts. I revolutionizing her approach to dentistry. And after following seriously ill from Mercury exposure and her traditional practice. Dr. Jorgensen, took a bold step back into education becoming a ified holistic health practitioner and therapeutic nutritional counselor. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: For the past decade, she has pioneered health-based dentistry at total care, dental and wellness. In Utah. Attracting patients worldwide. Through her platform living. with Dr. Michelle, she shares practical solutions for healthy living inspired by her passion for teaching writing and the belief that the earth provides all we need. I couldn’t agree more and with a significant online presence, something around 219,000 Instagram followers 173,000 on Facebook and 88,000 on tiktok Dr. Jorgensen continues to inspire a global audience while balancing life as a mother grandmother. And gardener, so, Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: Dr. Jorgensen Michelle, I appreciate you being on here. It’s an honor to have you. And, as I was just briefly, saying to you before we got started, I’ve been following you for a couple years as you’ve been doing things in dentistry in general and in the holistic space longer than I have. So I really do admire and appreciate all the things that you’re doing, how you really do have a fully holistic approach from my perspective. And Of course,… Michelle Jorgensen: Thank you so much for having me on. I appreciate you. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: and I save one of my favorite things that you do it with your content is that you provide content. And then you give a reason And you give some sort of explanation. it’s not just like this 10 second tidbit and it’s gone and you leave people wanting more when obviously people who want more but at least there’s an explanation behind things and I really do appreciate that. so as always I always like to start things off with gratitude so Michelle if you could please tell us three things that you are grateful for today. Michelle Jorgensen: I’m sitting here looking out the window at my blackberry patch and it’s very very abundant currently. So I’m very grateful for Just food. That is full of electrons and helps my body to do what I ask of it, because I ask a lot of it. So that’s the first thing I’m I’m also grateful for the chance to Information and for people like you who are willing to let me do that. thank you for you. I’m grateful for you and I’m always grateful for my family and those that support me and we’re moving into Labor Day weekend here when we’re recording this, and I have family coming into town and so I’m just very grateful for that opportunity, too. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: Beautiful, beautiful. Thank you. So, there’s a lot of content out there that you’ve put out there over the years. And I really like people to get to an idea especially if this is the first time meeting you, to speak, So if we were to gather and compress all that you’ve produced and accomplished with your life and career into a one to two sentence mission statement, so to speak in this particular season of your life. What would that statement be? Michelle Jorgensen: Yeah, I can tell it to you, exactly. But of course I don’t have it pulled up immediately or I would have. But really what I like to do is I like to clear a path through the mountains of information that are available today. there’s so much information on every side and on soft and contradictory. So I like to clear path through the mountains of information and really help people reclaim the ability to help themselves live. because a lot of us and feel like we can’t do it anymore. We have to rely on the supplement or a practitioner or this or that, but all of the ability lies with you, you just have to learn how to do it again. So that’s what I try to do. Clear that path. Make it easy. And allow you to really help yourself be well. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: Thank you. Yeah, it all starts within ourselves, So Beautiful. 00:05:00 Michelle Jorgensen: yep. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: So now let’s go back a little bit to your background. So can you share what? Initially, drew you to dentistry to begin with? and then, I guess how you also transitioned into the holistic practice Michelle Jorgensen: Yeah, those are definitely two different pathways. So originally my father’s a dentist and I was always interested in something related to dentistry or medicine as a senior in high school. I was the kid that was always the top of my class wanted to do something and I thought, alright let’s find out which way do I want to go? And so I talk to all the doctors that I knew there were a bunch in our neighborhood. I talked to all the doctors and the doctor said Be a dentist and I talked to all the dentists and they said Be a dentist. And I said, the consist seems to be a dentist especially, and this was, 30 years ago, they said, do you intend to Michelle Jorgensen: have a family to, do all of those other things that typically women do and I said, Yeah, that’s all that. Those are all on my plans in my plans and they said, All the doctors said For sure, your father has a much better lifestyle than we do. So as a woman It is a easier path from a practitioner standpoint to be a dentist than to be a doctor. So I said, All right, I guess I’ll be a dentist then. So I started down that path quite quickly and I think back now and think Why in the world did I do this? But I graduated from dental school at the age of 23 years old. So I was a baby. And I think What in the world was I trying to rush into being responsible for, I’ve had to be grown up and responsible the whole rest of my life. what was I thinking? But that’s what I’ve done. So I was very, very happy when I returned 30 and I could finally tell people, I was so tired of people saying, How old are you? Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: Yeah. Michelle Jorgensen: Right, I So I was so happy when I could say I’m 30, thank you very much. I’m old. I’ve been at this for seven years already so that was nice. But I was a general dentist. I was following my father’s footsteps. He’s very, very active and read, teaching himself, new things and staying at the very forefront of his career. And so I was doing the same thing, we were practicing together and at that point, I started actually getting really ill and I didn’t know what it was. And so, you’d never looked to dentistry for any of the answers, especially not myself. I mean I was a dentist but I didn’t really connect anything together with health at that point. And so, I started asking doctors and, going to all these different things, appointments and having X-rays and blood tests, and there were no answers. I was really struggling with gut health. My brain was just fried. I literally couldn’t remember a patient’s name from room to room and I’ve always had a phenomenal memory. So that was very, very evident change. something had changed here but the big one was numbness in my hands. I couldn’t Michelle Jorgensen: Instruments anymore and I didn’t have the dexterity I needed to do my work. So I actually put my practice for sale and I thought I was going to have to figure out something else to do with the rest of my life. And like I said, I started early. So this was just mid 30s. I had four young kids. This was our income for our entire family. And finally, as I was looking into other options, someone said, Have you ever looked into mercury poisoning? And I said, no. I don’t have any fillings and I knew that, silver or magnum fillings have mercury in them. I said, No, I don’t have any fillings and they just kind of chuckle and said, It’s not the feelings, you have, it’s a fillings you’ve been drilling out for the last 10 years with no protection. And that was literally the very first time I’d ever heard That could be a problem for the dentist and so I thought, I don’t have anything to lose at this point. I have everything to lose. If I can’t continue dentistry but I have nothing to lose to go and research this and so got a blood test and that’s what it was mercury poisoning off the charts. So I had to figure out Michelle Jorgensen: Could I still be a dentist and get better? Could I get all the mercury out and stop putting it in and still be a dentist? How did that work? And I found that There were organizations that actually had protocol for this. I didn’t even know they literally had no clue, they existed. So I started doing things just for my own health and Changing the way I was removing those fillings just for my own health, but it was very apparent as any patient who’s been through these procedures. Now, it’s very apparent. Something was different, and I’m walking in with his hazmat, all this kind of crazy mercury filtration masks and I’m covering them from head to town, we got giant vacuums and they’re like, Okay, let’s go on here. Things got a little wacko, what’s happening? So I describe what I was doing it for, And they were always very thankful because now, it was gonna be safer for them and they started to their doctors and to their friends. And these people were the ones that started teaching me. Doctors would say, have you ever thought about ozone? And I’m like, I don’t even know what ozone is like, the ozone layer. I know my hairspray. Michelle Jorgensen: The 80s, supposedly, killed it, but that’s all I know about ozone. Is there something else? I should know here. so I literally was taught by these practitioners, who would say, let us fill you in a little bit, but there were no courses. There were no places to go. I just had to find these weird obscure little things along the way, and what it did was open my eyes to the connection between dentistry and health and I didn’t know it existed. I knew that gum disease cause might lead to, blood sugar regulation issues with diabetes but was it that was all anybody ever talked about and now I’ve realized that literally 60 to 80% of chronic disease comes from or is related to the mouth? I mean, it’s so huge so now I can’t not see it, And that’s entirely shaped my path is my experience there. 00:10:00 Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: Yeah, I can relate with a lot of that forces. Fortunately for me, obviously I had not experienced the mercury amalgammon poisoning, but I know other practitioners who have I can also relate to go practicing dentistry in my mid 20s and people looking at me like Are you old enough to be here? Michelle Jorgensen: And exactly. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: Yeah, so I know what that looks like from the upside down position, so to… Michelle Jorgensen: Yeah. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: Thank you for sharing all that, and very happy that Found that path to healing yourself. So it’s beautiful. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: So in that transition because you kind of alluded to some of the patients were like what is going on here? What were some of the major challenges that you encountered when you decide to shift two holistic dentistry? And then, how did you navigate some of those other challenges? Michelle Jorgensen: First of all, the word holistic. It brings a lot of Homer. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: Yeah. Michelle Jorgensen: When you say, holistic infect, I remember we put this banner up above the front door, entering into a practice that said something about total holistic dentistry, and a woman who’ve been coming to our practice for years. She came and she said, If I’d known this was holistic, I would never have come here, And this was a place that, we were just now transitioning to this and I thought, Okay, there’s a lot of Michelle Jorgensen: Inferred meaning in that word holistic and people start thinking things like You’re going to be wearing tie-dye and burning incense and having beads hanging in the doors and, you’re gonna be using a lot of chanting and, things that aren’t proven by science. And that’s absolutely the opposite of what our practice is. Our practice is the most technologically, advanced dental practice, you’re gonna walk into in the entire, world. Currently we have to be and not only because we really focus on that. But number two, because we have to defend what we do. traditional dentist, they can just do what they’ve always done for forever. Nobody’s questioning them, but everything we do, we get questioned it. So, I literally know research that came out this week. I have to know that I have to be up on all of it because I have to be able to say, no, the reason we’re doing this is because of this, this is the latest research was literally released a month ago. This is what it’s showing and that is what’s populating, what we are providing for you. So that word holistic actually, turns people off, I find Michelle Jorgensen: So I stopped using it, I mean, we still use it because some people are, looking for it and honestly the word is good, right? It just means that we’re looking at the whole body and an entirety But for some reason, there’s this misnomer about it that it has to do with lack of science and kind of this woo stuff that some people are just really turned off with. So I like to call myself a health-based dentist because it’s just super straightforward. What I am, I’m just looking at your health and saying what I do impact it in a positive way? That’s why I call myself Health-based dentist. So that was definitely one of the hurdles was just trying to figure out how to position myself. The next hurdle was exactly what I was describing with. The science is really figuring out what protocols are re What are we gonna do here? Okay, so I understand that a root canal could cause Michelle Jorgensen: Health issues, but How can I diagnose this? How can I really stand on my two feet and confidently? Say Yes, this is contributing to what you have going on How can I do that legally? How can I do that? Ethically, and all those kinds of things. And so really, I had to do some major deep, dives to figure out. Okay, what should we be doing? What does this look like? And What is the best protocol? And we change frequently, we’re always adapting based on what things come across the board. the third thing I think that has really been a challenge but has been a good challenge for me, how do we get the word out? And at first I started trying to teach dentists, I thought, let’s just get more dentist, providing it. And, the biggest detractors are for the kind of dentistry that I do. Dentists. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: Exactly. Michelle Jorgensen: Dentists and so I decided very quickly. I don’t like teaching dentists. I don’t like having to defend myself, to the nail, every single word I say I can even though I’m more research than they are, I can but I don’t like to do that. That’s very contentious. it’s not the energy that I really resonate with. I’m very much an abundance mentality happy. and so I’m not about just gonna go stand toto I can but I don’t enjoy it. And so all of a sudden I decided, that’s not the way to do this, that’s not the way. I’m gonna spread this message, the way I’m gonna spread this message is I’m going to teach people what they should be asking for in a dentist. What they should be looking for what they should be demanding. Honestly when they go to a provider and if enough people are asking it, then the providers are going to have to learn how to provide it. So, that’s the back door approach that I’ve taken because dentists are actually very interested in what I have to say. But that’s okay, because if enough patience are interested in what I have to say, 00:15:00 Michelle Jorgensen: And some of them will have to stand up and start doing things differently. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: Absolutely. Right beautiful. I couldn’t agree with you more. I have encountered the same exact thing and I get people messaging me online and Instagram message, all the time asking. How to find a practitioner like this and I said, it all you have to do some research. You have to understand some things but it’s really all about the questions that you ask, you got to be able to ask good questions and tell someone is being authentic or not, And generally I find I mean you’ve probably had this experience that other dentists that the ones you’re describing. you can usually tell if someone’s interested in the questions you have to that. You’re asking or not. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: so you were describing some of what it sounded like to me, transformative experiences that you’re having that you guys constantly are shifting from here to there. So what are some of the shifts that you’ve made over the recent past that might surprise some people. Michelle Jorgensen: So, one of the big shifts that we’ve had, there’s a couple, but we just literally have added departments to our practice as So, our practice is very different from an appearance standpoint than a typical dental practice, and from a personnel or staffing standpoint as well or multiple disciplines underneath one roof and thankfully, where we’re at, we’ve been able to expand to adjacent building. So, we literally have a campus now of multiple providers and different things. And as we find a need, we then create a new department hire, a new team, and bring it on board. And so, the latest one that we’ve really have delved into is the connection between dentistry and sleep. And so few people recognize that there are some dentists who have worked to capitalize on this connection and they do certain appliances that bring the bottom job forward. That’s the main purpose of these appliances as they bring the bottom job forward. Because if there is less room to breathe bringing, Michelle Jorgensen: Jeff forward does Open up more room to breathe. Unfortunately it’s like hyperextending your knee. Eight hours a day. Michelle Jorgensen: When you hyperextend this jaw, eight hours a day, while you’re sleeping, and what happens is with the research is showing is about after about four years, there are irreparable joint changes that are happening in those joints when that’s all you’re doing. So, that’s really what we had to step back and say, Okay that’s not fixing anything and that’s not actually getting the root cause whatsoever. Why, is that any different or any better than I’m wearing? A CPAP at night, Pops, Just supplemental oxygen when we hold your job forward. All we’re doing is basically supplementing your airway. What is that doing? It’s not benefiting anybody in that point. So what is actually the And so, we’ve dealt deeply into root cause reasons for sleep, issues largely related to functional or structural problems here. So, I cannot breathe because there’s And why is there not enough room? Because your mouth is so small. Why is your mouth so small? Because nutrition issues from literally day, one of affected, your mouth growth. So we talk already to kiddos, we start working on them from a nutrition standpoint growth and development standpoint. Our goal is that kids never need Michelle Jorgensen: Braces that they never need to get their wisdom teeth out that there’s plenty of room to breathe. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: Free. Michelle Jorgensen: There’s no ADHD symptoms related to oxygen. kiddos aren’t bedwetting at night time because they don’t have these excess ammonia build it because they can’t breathe. I mean, all of these things like literally I’m skimming just the very surface of a big con of a big concept. But this is a huge one that affects literally 80% of the population is sleeping efficiency and we figured out that there’s an enormous connection to dentistry and things. We can do root cause based that correct the problem rather than just band-aid it. So, that’s one of the huge modifications, we may just in the last year or so, in our practice. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: Yeah, and again I couldn’t agree with you more and getting down to the root cause because I can actually argue that utilizing CPAP machines and those protrusive devices actually make the problem worse. Because like you said it causes the,… Michelle Jorgensen: Okay. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: the freaking configuration of the jaw. I mean, and it actually can make the muscles in the back of your throat, in your jar weaker because you don’t have to use them at all. So okay,… Michelle Jorgensen: Yep. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: what maybe give us an example of how would you get to the root cause of something like that a situation like that? Because I know I see this and hear this all the time. 00:20:00 Michelle Jorgensen: Yeah, so it’s interesting. in My job full-time is the new patient intake so I just see new patients. Anytime in the practice, that’s all I’m doing. I’m not doing any of the fillings anymore. I’m not doing in the surgery. I’ve done that for decades, I did all of that. And now since I have some additional training and the medical side, I just put all those pieces together. So every single patient that comes through our practice gets a cone beam, CT scan, and people say, what is this? And How does this compare to a CT scan, you’re gonna get in the hospital. very different from a radiation standpoint. the amount of radiation, it’s much reduced than a regular typical, CT scan, and it’s head specific. So what I want to see is I want to see eyebrows to chin. That’s what I want to see on you as eyebrows to chin. So we do an eyebrows to CT scan called me, T, scan, and on that, we’re able to identify a lot of things. Michelle Jorgensen: So what we see are infections, first of all had neck infections, so we’re going to see if there’s any infection underneath an old root canal and does that happen frequently every single day and times multiple times every single day and these are often asymptomatic. People don’t even know, they don’t hurt they. I’m gonna retract that statement. they’re asymptomatic locally. Meaning, they don’t have a local symptom, nothing hurts. They can’t pinpoint, sometimes they’ll say it just doesn’t feel right or doesn’t feel normal, that kind of thing, but there are symptoms there, the autoimmune disease, they’re suffering with the joint problems they have, they’re, all these other issues. So we see infections als failed, root canals, but also wear teeth will remove that didn’t heal, right? Michelle Jorgensen: We also can see any sort of jaw changes that have occurred… Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: Okay. Michelle Jorgensen: because of airway problems. So we’ll see jaw joint changes in the joint itself. We’ll see extra bumps of bone growing at the corners of the jaw, underneath the tongue, all these different areas based on airway problems and then we actually can see the tube urethrough and we can measure it and say, Okay, how big is it? And if it’s this size, Why is it smaller than it should be. look the tongue sitting way back there into the airway. The tissues all thickened up there in the roof of the mouth because of the infections in the mouth. All this is in So we identify it there. That’s where we screen and we go. Okay, Yep. We see that there’s a structural functional issue here. let Let’s go to sleep study and let’s verify what we’re finding. We see this, does it then equate to poor sleep. uate to pour health? What does it equate to? And so there’s sometimes secondary testing that we do to validify what we see on the CT scan, but a lot of things we go straight off that. Michelle Jorgensen: can infections and things in the mouth. Those are straight from the CT scan right to treatment. So that is gold standard in health-based dentistry. You must have a cone beam CT scan. And now, it’s interesting. I was just on the phone with a up-and-coming health-based dentists Where is She? I’m trying to remember where she’s located. I believe, she’s in Texas and she’s just working for the doctor that owns the practice. And she said, tell me what you bought, your new patient process. So I walked her through exactly what we do. And she said, we don’t take a cone beam CT, scan every time because we only take it if, people have a concern with root canal And I said, Then you’re missing probably 80% of what you need to actually be caring for And she was like, but I’m not the owner I said then you can go talk to the owner because you guys are missing a lot of care. So that is gold standard. You really simply can’t find out what’s going on in the mouth. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: Yeah, I couldn’t agree with you more. I offer that to every single new patient that I see and very often they oblige. and more often than not we definitely see issues. so, Michelle Jorgensen: Yep. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: so that’s more on your side of things when it comes to this breathing issue. But not as you’ve alluded, to not a lot of dentists are screening for these things and when they are, they’re not necessarily looking for things. The right way, what are one or two things that people can maybe notice in themselves that they’re doing that, they might be able to come with these good questions to a practitioner. Michelle Jorgensen: So from a breathing standpoint, the things you’re going to notice are You can’t go to sleep. So you lay there at night for hours, you can’t stay asleep. So you go sleep, fine. But then you’re gonna wake up but one in the morning you’re awake for an hour you wake up again at three or wait for another, just that miserable. I can’t stay asleep toss and turn so you wake up in the morning and your bed looks like a tornado, hit it. Those are all things, you wake up multiple times to go to the bathroom and people will say, no, I just wake up to go to the bathroom. here’s the tricky thing. There’s actually a hormone pathway that turns off the urge to go to the bathroom at night if you’re really truly in deep sleep. So if you’re waking up, go to the bathroom, you’re actually waking up. Then you’re going to waking up to go to the bathroom so you’re already waking up, focus issues, so ADHD symptoms. 00:25:00 Michelle Jorgensen: Those are hugely related to this fatigue. Just that generalized. I woke up in the morning, I felt like I slept. Okay, but why am I just blitzed? Why do I just feel terrible? If you sit down in the afternoon, you can fall asleep in a split second, anytime you sit down, you fall asleep. That’s a sign snoring, 100% mouth breathing, 100%. So these are all things that you can look at at home and go. Wow, I have all of those things. I feel super tired. my wife tells me I snore and I just can’t say sleep at night. It’s so hard. I actually dread going to bed because I know I’m just gonna fight all night long. Those are all things to watch for. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: Yes, thank you. Beautifully described. And I wanted to shift a little bit into the different topic that is close to me and that’s mindfulness. And how would How would you define mindfulness, what does it mean to you personally and professionally Michelle Jorgensen: It’s a great question mindfulness, Personally for me I learned a long time ago that I actually had to stop listening to other people’s voices in my head. And I know a lot of people today, they constantly have someone else’s voice in their head, through podcasts, through music, whatever it is, they’ve always got their eye, they’re airpod and their ear and there’s always somebody else’s voice in their head and I had a coach Years ago, and she said, books behind me. I love to read books. She said, just stop listening and stop reading for a little while because if you’re constantly filling your mind with other people’s words, where is the room for your own? Michelle Jorgensen: So I just stop listening and I stopped reading for a little while and it was kind of against my nature to do that and I just started paying attention to What was going On my own mind and it was pretty incredible what actually was there. Once I just gave it room To Bloom, gave it room and started writing things down and all of a sudden I would have these streams of thoughts that would come day in and night. I had, notebooks sitting by the side of my bed notebook in my bathroom. For when you eat all these thoughts in the shower. Why do you get thoughts in the shower? Because you’ve turned off all the other words, you’ve given your mind a chance to think, so mindfulness to me is actually paying attention to what’s going on Professionally. Mindfulness is I use a lot of this in my profession, my team knows. So we call them care coordinators in our team and they Michelle Jorgensen: Always are there with me anytime. I’m with a new patient, There’s a care coordinator with me. And they take the patient through the next steps in their care and they know my mannerisms very well by now. And so I’ll start talking with someone and I will be explaining a procedure, all be talking about, let’s say they have, a certain autoimmune condition and I’m discussing this and all of a sudden. I just pause for a second Okay, yeah, yeah. Actually, you need to do this and my team just knows not comment, not say anything. They just know that I’m listening to what’s going on in my head that there’s answers there. And if I don’t stop and I don’t give them a little bit of room, Then I’m not gonna be able to access them, but I 100% believe that we know so much, it’s all in our heads. It’s all in there and there’s greater power. That’s also delivering a lot of that information to us. We’ve just got to give it space. So that’s That’s the way I think about it. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: Yeah, I love that. And do you have any practices that you personally use currently and how do they influence the way you approach dentistry? Michelle Jorgensen: So every morning I always have prayer and Scripture reading. That’s the first part of my day, every single day and I do it personally, we also do it with our family. Actually I guess It is fun activity that we do with our family, every single morning, have. I’m on the tail end of kiddos. My youngest is actually a senior in high school right now. So we’ve had houses full of kids down to, one time we had nine people in our home and now’ just there’s three of us and so it’s very much changed but this is something we’ve done for years. I use something called insight timer and it’s just a free thing. You can get on your phone and it has a timer, you can set. So we have a six or seven minutes. Michelle Jorgensen: We do two minutes of scripture reading, and then we do a minute of writing down what we’re grateful for the day. We do a minute of who we want to be thinking about for the day. And then we do two minutes of prayer that’s gonna only be six. So that’s six. And then we do two minutes of personal prayer. And then the thing dings at each time, which is great. It dings that the two minutes, it dings at the one, and then the two and then we know we’re done and then we all set up and we all, 00:30:00 Michelle Jorgensen: Finish our prayer. And we say, What is one thing that we saw the hand of God in our life yesterday or the head of whomever you, want to believe in. We share that with each other. We share a little bit about what we just learned, and then we’re done. It’s literally a 10 minute or less practice that we do every single morning. But it just connects us to the Divine and it connects us to each other. So that’s something that we do every single day and to that along with, I run with a couple phenomenal women in the morning, that they’re my therapists and we often have therapy session and I bring a lot of those insights. And a lot of that to practice, I share that with my team, I share that with my patients and I said, I just allow Space for it to be there. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: Yeah, that’s beautiful. And like you said, it helps connect you to one another. It connects you to the divine as you said, and then really the other thing I’ve seen is that to oneself? It really keeps you in touch with what’s present for you. thank you for that. And Has mindfulness changed the way you engage with your patients over the years and what impact you leave, it has on their healing process. Michelle Jorgensen: 100% has changed the way I think a lot of times as a practitioner we’re trained and believe that we have to know all the answers. And that people are looking at us to know all the answers and if we don’t, then we’re failing. And we have to tell them, at least something, actually don’t believe that’s true. I think that sometimes, for making things up, or if we’re stretching or then that’s actually not serving anybody. So way it’s actually changed. Probably the way I approach practice and patients. The most is Michelle Jorgensen: no one loves to come to the dentist. I mean there’s a few kids who say I just love it here, But very few people, really just look forward to going to the dentist. So if that’s the case, If someone’s going to come to the dentist, they have to have a reason right. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: Yeah. Yeah. Michelle Jorgensen: Thing that they want. There’s some I want and my job as a practitioner is to help them get that thing. That’s it. Michelle Jorgensen: to sell things. My job isn’t, people say things like, you’re just trying to get a new boat. I’m like I don’t have a boat. Thank you. I really appreciate that. But actually, the bigger reason I’m here, it’s because I want to help you get what you want. Do you want a boat? I know, it’ actually has nothing to do with me. So I approach patient care so much differently, it’s just all about them. What if somebody coming to the dentist not for fun. So it has to be something else. What is the reason they’re there? And how can I help them? Get that? And so I tap in a lot, again, my team members, they just know when you look up to the left, when you’re looking up to the left, you’re looking for memory bank, when you’re looking, like, these things that I look up into the air, they just wait, she’s getting some information like Okay Yep that’s way back in the final cabinet. Michelle Jorgensen: When we go, see if I can find it. All right I’m gonna find it’s there somewhere, But I just really listen or listening until I take time and the other day somebody it cracked me up. I was talking with a patient, I was sharing some things and I was listening and trying to get what she needed and she’s like, my gosh, Doctor Michelle. I feel like I need popcorn right now, this is fascinating to watch you, to listen to you, and watch, you just pull this information out of the year. She Where’s the popcorn? I’m just so interested in all of this. I was like, that is hilarious So my favorite comments ever, but it’s just like this, we’re just sharing we’re just reaching the universe for insight. They can feel it, and it’s just totally changed. I don’t have to know everything, and I don’t know everything, but I can find the answers. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: I’ve had that same exact conversation with people and I also refer to going back in the filing cabinet because that’s exactly what it feels like. Yeah. So thank you and… Michelle Jorgensen: Yep. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: and A lot of this. What you’re describing it seems like it comes from your core philosophy. with that, that’s just deep within you that you’ve kind of enriched. So to speak. Can you share the core principles that guide your holistic approach and how it differs from the conventional methods that we see? Michelle Jorgensen: For Take my story for example, when I was visiting doctors, they were looking for something to patch up my problem. So, I had gut issues. what are they going to do for my gut issues? They’re gonna prescribe a purple pill. the time it was a prescription. Now you can get it over the counter, they’re gonna do a scope and go look and what was going on down there? They were going, do those kinds of things for my numbness. They want to do surgery. They thought it’s called thoracic outlet syndrome, there’s something obstructing. Pinching what’s going on back up in here? Let’s do some surgery. Let’s open things up. all of that was focused on symptoms, right? Every single bit of that was focused on symptoms and that’s typically the care that everybody else is getting everywhere, too. it’s focused on symptoms and symptomology. 00:35:00 Michelle Jorgensen: If you’re treating symptoms, you’re simply. Dealing with the warning lights, your body’s giving you the warning signs. Your body is giving you, you’re just turning off the light, I equate it to If you have your car and you’re driving down the road and one of those little check, engine light comes on. And you pull over, and you disconnect the fuse. Michelle Jorgensen: The lights no longer on. but as prop,… Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: Here, it’s very true. Michelle Jorgensen: Problem is not away. taking ibuprofen for a headache is disconnecting the fuse. The reason the headache didn’t get addressed whatsoever. But the lights out. So then you just pull back on the road and you drive on feeling good about yourself, because there’s no more light. But all you’ve done is disconnect the fuse. So, my philosophy is all about finding why the engine lights on to begin with and all goes back to cell health, everything’s about cells, and if you can help one cell be You can help every cell be And that’s really what I focus on now is, What does a cell need? In fact, This is coming out of my new book soon, but I will tell you about it, It’s called the Cell. model, There’s four things that every cell needs Michelle Jorgensen: It has to have certain supply of things. So cells, need nutrients, they need electrolytes. They need certain things to be able to actually fire correctly. They need glucose. They need oxygen, they need water. what do they need? How do you actually get it to them? They need to be supported. Michelle Jorgensen: So how can you manage say those electrolytes, how does the electorates flow in and out? They need to be secured if they flow in and out through water. What else is the water carrying? Is it carrying pesticides and herbicides and other things that are going to totally confuse the way that cell utilizes that water and they need to have correct signaling. So what are cell signals like, What does that even about? Is there literally electricity in our body? How does that work? So, those are the four things that sell the cells need. And if you can provide those four things, you can literally correct. Any other health issue in the body and it’s root, cause addressed It’s function, it’s going down to the reason that you don’t feel not just disconnecting the fuse on the check engine light. So that is my core philosophies. You’ve got to get all the way to what’s happening at the cells. Michelle Jorgensen: And then you work backward in the body and you help the body heal itself and the body has to do the work. As a doctor, we do nothing. We just provide the body with what it needs to do the job. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: Yeah I completely agree and I have a very similar conversation with patients where it’s like people come like you can line up 10 people with the same diagnosis. And it doesn’t mean that what’s causing their symptoms, even though the symptoms might be overlapping. Does not necessarily mean that it’s the same issue for each any of those people. Completely gray and thank you for walking through that. Looking forward to the new book. you can give a little plug here if you want. What’s it? Michelle Jorgensen: Yes, it’s called. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: What’s the name of it? Michelle Jorgensen: This is the craziest thing. It’s almost a little embarrassing for me. We went through about 15 different book titles with the publisher and they have settled on Living Well with Dr. Michelle, which is my platform, which is everything else. I mean, they was not the title, it was gonna be in there, It is what it is, living Dr. Michelle and basically, it’s helping people reclaim their ability to live well with unlimited energy and unlimited health. So that’s what it is. It should be available for pre-order in October and it’s gonna be released next spring. So it literally will walk you through how to help your body and cells be well. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: Beautiful. I like the name. So It definitely has the right ring to it. of course, so Not only kind of got a little bit more into your philosophy and how you approach things, what is I guess a approach to educating your patients on the benefits of these types of practices in these philosophies and what strategies do you use to empower them in their health journey? Michelle Jorgensen: I find that more often than not. People are Frustrated and overwhelmed. They’ve been to so many different doctors, they just don’t even know who to listen to anymore. And there is a lot of research showing how much information we actually assimilate through hearing. 00:40:00 Michelle Jorgensen: Through verbal information and it’s much lower than we would all hope for. Especially those of us who are trying to teach through audio media like podcasting and people will learn some things but they’re gonna get about Maybe 40%, probably even less than that of what we say. It’s just not going to work. So what I like to do is I like to show people because visually we are going to pick up the pieces that we don’t get audio, ideally that’s not a word auditorally. so what we don’t get through the years, we’re gonna get through the eyes or through body language, And that’s visually as well. So, I use a lot of pictures. I use a lot of tellshole, Do you know, when I have a CT scan, I will pull that up in front of the patient. I will show them on an illustration. what does a root canal? what even is it? And what? Actually happens to lead to root canal failure. I draw it for them. They see it. I say, so this is what we’re looking On the CT scan. We’re looking at this dark Hal. Michelle Jorgensen: Right down here and then we turn to their CT scan and Look at your root, canals. Let’s go see you see it? So, they are discovering right along with me. And we are kind of detectives working side by side on this rather than me just talking at them. there was a very classic study done. I believe it was Dr. Dean Ornish, Then, this is years ago, decades ago and he was studying, people who had heart attacks near fatal heart attacks and they were doing dietary instruction for them. Telling them. You can’t eat this, you can’t eat this, you can’t eat this. You can’t eat this. Otherwise you’re gonna die. And what he found is a very small percentage of people actually did what they said. He’s this is literally a life or death situation, why are people not doing it? Because just telling you you’re gonna die is actually not motivating. So what he instead figured out as he talked to them and he said Michelle Jorgensen: What do you want to live for? my grandson is in kindergarten. I would love to see him graduate from high school. How many years is that? A 12 years. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: He? Michelle Jorgensen: All right So you want to live 12 more years. You just had a massive heart attack. What is it going to take for you to be able to see your grandson graduate from high school? And all of a sudden, he saw behavior change. He saw people taking ownership of where they were and where they wanted to be because it was something to live for. So that’s my huge emphasis on education as well. I actually don’t like even calling an education because we always as practitioners. We of they’re just not educated. no. If they were educated, then this is the common. When people say, Would a doctor ever smoke a cigarette Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: I mean,… Michelle Jorgensen: because, All… Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: I’ve seen it plenty. So, Michelle Jorgensen: so it was all education. that Doctor just must not be educated. no, they they know that that cigarette isn’t good for their health, but they’re still choosing to do it. I mean, we know now, I mean what anybody ever eat a Big Mac and fries and a milkshake? Because do we know that? That isn’t really that good for our bodies. So if it’s all just about education, there’s a lot of things we wouldn’t do. It’s not about education, it’s about motivation. So that’s what I get to with the patient. Again, I get to. Why are you here? You’re not here for fun. So, why are you here? Let’s together, figure out how to get you where you’re going. Because I want to know why you want to get there. What Why are you really here? And where are you trying to go? And How can we get there, together? I’m gonna teach about root, canals, I’m gonna teach about Mercury. Sure, I’m gonna teach about fluoride, I’m gonna teach about breathing, I’m gonna teach about all this, but instead it’s about Michelle Jorgensen: You actually want to be able to get down on the floor and play with your grandbabies. I see that. You want to be able to walk those stairs without those knees aching, every single step, I get that you want to be able to wake up in the morning and feel like, you’re ready to go. And actually exercise, I get that too. So that is the way I work with my patients, as we figure out where you want to go and can I help you get there rather than Eat you all about the things you’re gonna do. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: Yeah, just to kind of put the last hammer on that nail. I have my own very close personal experiences with both of those kind of examples, my mom’s an ICU nurse. And thankfully, she’s getting ready to retire, but when I was little, they used to have this. I don’t know, if they still do this, but they bring your kids to work day. And my mom would bring me to the hospital sometimes and… Michelle Jorgensen: Yeah. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: I would sit in the ICU unit for. I don’t remember how long I was there for but I just distinctly. Remember seeing doctors standing outside? The hospital, smoking cigarettes and even as a little kid I was like I’m gonna like Isn’t that bad for you? just that’s a little kid. I think I was in elementary school. you just know that. So there you go just to kind of hammer away, one of your points. And the other one is with this one’s really close to me. 00:45:00 Michelle Jorgensen: Yep. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: This is about my father, He has some of his own chronic health issues, and I’ve come to the realization after many other people more much wiser than I have said these sets of things that you can’t change anybody. It’s hard enough to change ourselves. Michelle Jorgensen: Yep. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: and I mean, When I was years ago, I don’t know how many conversations and hours talking to my dad about changing some of his patterns in life and why don’t want to be healthier? Don’t you want this to not be the end of you? Kind of like, which witness in your father? it just seems so obvious, but it wasn’t and I know about Dr. Dean Martin. But I did not know specifically about That detail that you just said about this study. But I just one day came to me said, Don’t you want to get to know your grandkids? I’m not a father yet but don’t you want to see my children, don’t you want to get to know them? Don’t you want those? And Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: Since that day, he has made so many positive changes and I mean, obviously he’s still dealing with chronic illness but he is in a way better place than he was whatever that two years ago or whatever. Was that I had the conversation with him. So Those are two points that you just made that are in my personal experience. 100% true and I couldn’t agree with you anymore. So if anybody had any doubts about those things, I mean please please engage with that. Michelle Jorgensen: Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: Thank you. Michelle Jorgensen: Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: So, you’re starting to touch on some of whole, wellness treatments that you have it in your practice. So what are some of these methods that you’re most passionate about? And why do you believe they’re essential to modern dentistry? Michelle Jorgensen: One of the ones that actually has just come up. Literally this last week is fluoride and that’s a holy Grail or a sacred cow inside of dentistry and it was really interesting. There was a brand new study that just came out showing that Michelle Jorgensen: Higher levels of fluoride lead to neural developmental issues in children including decreased IQ and the research study was done a year ago but it was just picked up by national media and so all of a sudden I’m seeing on some forums dental forms tend to saying How do we defend ourselves against this? And I said, Why would you want to defend yourself against it? There’s alternatives now to fluoride there’s no reason to fend fluoride. You don’t have to die on that mountain top anymore. So, that’s one of the biggies and the option or the alternative is hydroxyapatite. We didn’t use to have this, but now we have hydroxy appetite. That is literally the mineral that your teeth and bones are made of and research shows that it is, more effective than fluoride at decreasing tooth decay and remineralizing teeth, actually, getting rid of cavities that have already just started. So, why in the world when we defend fluoride anymore? There’s zero reason to fluoride Michelle Jorgensen: so many negative side effects. I mean, the IQ decrease in children is enough to convince me, but I can list off about five more that are really worrisome. Why do it? We have an alternative. It’s called It’s literal and literally mineral complex. So I created an entire line of tooth powders and mouthwashes. For this reason, because, You don’t have to use fluoride. So that’s a big one that I’m most definitely passionate about another one that I’m hugely passionate about is root canals and there’s information. If you want to check this out online about how the connection between root als A root canal is The dead organ. That’s left in your body and I often joke and say let’s say your gallbladder The doctor said You’ve got to get your gallbladder out so they took it out, they cleaned out all the stones. They freshened it up a bit and threw it back in your body. And so you back up again. how would that go? Michelle Jorgensen: Not really that great, the bugs are always going to find that dead tissue. There’s no blood flow to that anymore. There’s no immune flow to so that means no immune cells. can get there. So bugs are gonna find it. Your body can’t defend it. You’re gonna have a massive infection. that’s what a root canal. Tooth is dead organ. That’s left in your body and that your body can’t defend anymore because there’s no blood flow. So basically these hidden infections hang out in the body, they cause all sorts of immune problems and lead to all sorts of disease. So that’s another biggie that we talk about along with that safe, removal piece. If you’re gonna get mercury feelings out, which I recommend you do it safely. Otherwise, you’re just gonna fill your brain with a whole bunch more mercury and that’s what was wrong with my brain. 00:50:00 Michelle Jorgensen: Is mercury on the brain means your brain doesn’t work anymore so you don’t want to do that. So you absolutely need to get those fillings removed safely. So those are the big three that I tackle is mercury root, canals, and breathing which we already talked about and then the fluoride is just that extra little bonus, one that I love to talk about because it’s just a no-brainer Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: And are there any other practices or procedures in dentistry that you think could be date are dangerous for someone’s health? Michelle Jorgensen: yes, the other one that I see is areas where teeth were removed, They don’t always heal properly and they can also lead to that dead zone in the bone that can affect hormone health overall, health and gum disease, which is honestly gum disease, is so well, researched so talked about it’s not a new shiny toy, to talk about gum disease but it’s still something that we see on a daily basis. The other one it’s not necessarily dangerous, but Michelle Jorgensen: Why do people get cavities? everybody thinks it’s just because they’re not brushing their teeth. But I see people day in and day out the brush, their teeth still get cavities. And they tell me, I look in their mouth, I say, boy, you’re the kid, who’s always had a cavity, aren’t you? They’re like, How can you tell I’m like, I can tell, because your whole mouth was full of fillings. yeah, I was so depressing. Every single time I go to the dentist, I have two more cavities. we figure out why and usually it’s a gut function issue as very little to do with the way you’re brushing your teeth. I mean, Yes, you need to brush your teeth, Don’t stop that, but it has way more to do with the way you’re absorbing and getting nutrients. So we delve into that deeply and that’s another again kind of sacred cow. That dentistry has defended for a long time. No, there’s other things other than just brushing Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: Yeah, that is another complex issue. So thank you for touching on that. Are there any other current challenges that you encounter when it comes to holistic dentistry? Michelle Jorgensen: There’s always challenges. I mean, just recently, this was an interesting story I had. The Department of Professional Licensing in the state that I practice in contact. Me and said that we just had somebody with a complaint against you saying that you are claiming to be a traditional naturopath. And what is your What is your? proof of all that. And this was the interesting thing about this complaint. So the researcher whoever works for the state that was emailing me about this said, Can you please provide me with your documentation and as a side note I’ve looked at all of your information online and I would actually like to book an appointment with you as soon as we get this investigation through. So I sent this to my partner and she’s like, Can we frame this once? This and I said, Michelle Jorgensen: So I sent in my documentation, my board certification, all my information. He said, okay case closed, I’ll be calling your office to book an appointment now so we still get so many people just questioning us That I just have to stay on my toes, I have to stay on my toes but It’s okay because I say on my toes because I can help people with that as well. I can help benefit their life and improve their health because I know my stuff, I can also tell them what they need to look for another dentist. We’ve created a directory online so on my living. Dr. Michelle.com site. We have a directory online of dentists that are minded, and you can go find dentists throughout the country. Please tell your dentist to sit up and pay attention to some of these things. And start realizing how dentistry impacts help because it’s enormous, Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: Wonderful, I’m gonna get on that, so, Okay,… Michelle Jorgensen: Yes, that actually yes. Yep. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: so we’ve talked about a lot of the things that you do now. And what I’m curious about is future. looking ahead, where do you see holistic dentistry moving and say, the next five to ten years and How do you plan to contribute to that future? Michelle Jorgensen: Yeah, so my future is broadening a little bit, so this book that’s being released is not about dentistry, although it talks a lot about dentistry, we talked about that. I talked about the element of error and then I discussed the sleep issue. I talked about the element of the element with the earth and I talk about Mercury and my issues there. so I talk a lot about this in the book but it’s not about dentistry entirely. So, Michelle Jorgensen: My personal future is that I am going to be helping people see the connection between the two but also how simple health actually can be when you get just down to the very basics of how the body works. So that is And in my future, I will have a show. I’ve often joked that I am the combination between Martha Stewart and Dr. Oz. So we will be gardening together and cooking together and doing all these things, it will happen. And if I talk about it enough, it will going to happen and you will all be able to live Dr. Michelle, and many different ways and what I really hope that does brings holistic or what I like to call health, based dentistry to the forefront and bring it out of obscurity, take it, out of that tie-dye incense burning beads on the door, era into know, this is actually real health care. This is… 00:55:00 Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: Mmm. Michelle Jorgensen: what real health care looks like and what we were doing before was simply being tooth mechanics. We were plugging Michelle Jorgensen: Is cleaning up holes and plugging them. the person that fills the potholes on your road does the same thing. dentists have more responsibility, have more training have more Opportunity than just plugging holes, that’s what we do on the road. When we get holes in the road potholes in the road that we are. we’re more important than that. And dentists need to step up and take that role and patients need to start demanding it of us as well. So that’s where I see. Health-based dentistry going. Awesome. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: Yeah, thank you for saying those things. I’m completely in agreement and, Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: I’ve bumped her jumped around in my own practice until I’ve solidified my place where I’m at now and being a partner. But what you just described is just that to me in my experience, it just seems to be the majority, it’s just Looking for the potholes and trying to fill them. and… Michelle Jorgensen: Yep. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: so people that are maybe new to this. Lifestyle, what advice would you Give those that. Are considering a shift through more of a holistic or wellness, based lifestyle, and practice. Michelle Jorgensen: Find somebody that you can really learn by my book. It’s coming out soon and it’s gonna walk you very simply through one of the first steps. And that, honestly, like I said at the beginning, My job is just to help navigate through the mountains of information that surround us every day and so I get very Very step. One is this. And that’s really the key is decide your Why is it that you want to change? why? And then find your first step. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: Beautiful, beautiful, Michelle. I’m very grateful to have you on here. I really appreciate your time insights. And all the things that you provide for others, really. is there anywhere in particular that you would point people to that they can find you and your future your book that’s coming out and any other things that you have going on Michelle Jorgensen: So living. with Dr. Michelle.com is where you’re gonna find so many things. Lots of research on there, lots of free things, just go check it out. There’s products on there as well that I’ve been talking about, that’s where the book’s gonna be sign up as a subscriber on there because you’re gonna get all the information. Everything and then my practice is called total care dental.com. if you’re anywhere local to Utah, it’s where I’m located. We’d love to see you and we also would love to send you to someone else. That’s not local here. go to that living. Dr. Michelle site. There’s a dental directory on there and we will help you find someone. It’s closer to home for you. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: Thank I appreciate that. And even just the way you say those things. And from my perspective even we haven’t gotten to know each other very well but just our interacting and the things that I’ve seen you put out online. It seems to me that. Instead of Seeking the hearts and minds of others. So to speak. It seems that you kind of began this journey with opening your own heart and mind to others. And I really do appreciate that. Michelle Jorgensen: Yep. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: It’s Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: I have an encountered it as much as I’d like, let’s put it that way in life. So I really appreciate you for doing these things for coming on here and sharing these things with Everybody and you’re continuing to do so. And what your goals are for the future, I think are beautiful. I’m big into gardening agriculture and stuff too. So that was actually one of the first,… Michelle Jorgensen: Right. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: the first video I ever saw of you actually out in the garden and I was like, man, this lady and I we would really get one we really do see life through a very similar lens, so it was great. Michelle Jorgensen: Yeah. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: And that really I was like, I’m gonna have her on the podcast today, no doubt. So I really appreciate You being on here and last question just to kind of some things up. I always like to leave people with this. So if this were the last time you ever had to share your thoughts and you could only share three things, that people should start implementing in their lives immediately to improve their health. would they be? 01:00:00 Michelle Jorgensen: So grounding is number one because it’s so simple. Literally, just go touch the Earth. Every single one of our cells runs on electricity. And if you do not provide yourselves with electricity, they cannot run. It’s just how it is. And the Earth is one of the greatest sources of electricity. There is to put your feet Go walk on the grass. There are also grounding pads, grounding everything you can do to actually connect with the earth. So that’s number one, take fluoride out of your life, fluoride change, so many things in your life. Take fluoride out of your life, it’s simple to do. There are options now that have hydroxy appetite, there is no reason to have fluoride in anything ever again. And the third one is to literally change your mindset because mindset we might as well, throw the last one Change your mindset to one of abundance. There is enough in the world for everyone. There is enough of everything for everyone. And when you start seeing it, that way, you’ll find that you’re right. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: again, I completely agree with all three of those Dr. Michelle Jorgensen, thank you very much again. Everybody that’s listening watching. You can find Dr. Jorgensen on Instagram at with her website living well with Dr. Michelle.com please go check those Check out the future book. Same name. Thank you all for joining me and us for another hour episode of the Art of Mindful Medicine. Click all those buttons on there, the subscribe and share because that’s how we get to do, more of these things and spread the word because Dr. Michelle said The point is to share and get the word out about these types of things. So you are all part of that journey as well and you can see all past and future episodes on YouTube Channel, Spotify and Apple podcast platforms. You can also check out my website which is just the words mindful that Dr. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: And as I always like to do, I will end with a quote and this is from Hippocrates. And he said, Nature itself is the best physician it heals, three-quarters of all diseases and never speaks ill of its colleagues. So I thought that was wonderful. Thank you all again, and have a beautiful day or night wherever you are. So there we go. Thank you very much, I appreciate That was wonderful. I hope that Timing brand pretty well. Michelle Jorgensen: Yep. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: And yeah, that I’m interested to looking into this database that you’ve created. and I would absolutely love to stay in touch with you. I mean, like I said, we’re definitely Looking through the same lens here. And I’m,… Michelle Jorgensen: Nice. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: I’m carving my own path but also I’m very open-minded and I like to take from all the people and I love learning, but it’s funny you mentioned that creating that space for yourself to really have your own thoughts. And I have struggled with that and fast because I want more information. But It is very important. I have gotten much better at it and not only does it help create the own insights and thoughts from me. But it also just helps me recalibrate and rebalance and kind of reset things. so, Michelle Jorgensen: 100% it, good stuff. Okay. All… Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: Awesome. Michelle Jorgensen: Thank you. Have a fabulous weekend. Dr. Seth Gilson -The Art of Mindful Medicine: Thank You do the same. Okay. Meeting ended after 01:04:22 👋 This editable transcript was computer generated and might contain errors. People can also change the text after it was created.